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Syl
      #335504 - 09/02/08 08:23 AM
sharond

Reged: 10/29/07
Posts: 200


Syl,

Have you ever read the Book "Fiber Meance"?? If so, what are your thoughts on this? Of course, the guy is trying to promote is product here as well, and if we follow his protocol, no more digestive issues!!!

Thanks for your input.
Sharon



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Re: Syl new
      #335507 - 09/02/08 09:12 AM
Fen

Reged: 03/01/08
Posts: 574
Loc: Central NY

I've not heard of the book or the protocol - what is the gist of it??

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Re: Syl new
      #335514 - 09/02/08 10:40 AM
Zara

Reged: 06/07/06
Posts: 883


This post got me curious, too. I found this editorial review on Amazon that sort of tells us what to expect from the book.

"My training as a physician included many hours of nutrition, but fiber was only mentioned in regards to the effects of a deficiency. Never once did any of my professors consider the possibility that too much of what has always been considered a good thing' could have such harmful or far-reaching consequences. The author's detailed description of the trauma imposed to the gastrointestinal mucosa by the expanding fiber is a vivid reminder that returning to the basics of GI function and logically thinking through what our bodies actually are designed to do with the food we eat, should be the first step on anyone's journey to recovery from digestive disorders. Thanks to the insights in this book I have slowly begun to change my approach to common patient symptoms, which I traditionally would have treated by suggesting increased fiber and more water to correct! So far the results are promising. Dr. John Turner, DC, CCSP, DIBCN --Wise Traditions Newsletter by Weston A. Price foundation"


Here's also a link to the author's web site.

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IBS-C, bloating, cramps
pregnant

Edited by Zara (09/02/08 10:57 AM)

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Re: Syl new
      #335515 - 09/02/08 11:04 AM
sharond

Reged: 10/29/07
Posts: 200


Hi Fen,

The gist of it is to eliminate fiber from the diet, fiber being the culprit of many medical issues.
Here are a couple of excerpts:

RESTORING NATURAL BOWEL MOVEMENTS

by Konstantin Monastyrsky

Dietary fiber, eight glasses of water, and a low-fat diet — the sacred cows of American nutritional dogma — break natural bowel movements, and cause hard stools, irregularity, constipation, or constipation-predominant IBS. When patients seek medical help, they are routinely recommended to add more fiber, drink more water, and reduce fat even further. This misguided and harmful advice guarantees chronic constipation, hemorrhoids, and diverticulosis to virtually anyone, and it is behind the epidemics of inflammatory bowel disease and colon cancer. This guide condemns this pig-headed practice and teaches you how to restore natural bowel movements without resorting to fiber and laxatives.

Myth #11: Fiber is safe and effective for the treatment and prevention of diarrhea.

Reality: Actually, it's the complete opposite—fiber, particularly soluble, is the most common cause of diarrhea in children and adults. That's why it's recommended as a laxative to begin with. The idea of fiber as a preventive treatment for diarrhea is one of the most preposterous and harmful fiber-related frauds.


Author's note:

As you can see, it isn't me who has gone postal over fiber. I am just a messenger—and a darn lucky one, because my diet is mercifully fiber-free, and fiber no longer wrecks my health.

Of course, he has a link to his "store".

He is also very much against colonoscopies. Well, if a friend of mine had had a colonoscopy when she first had symptoms she would be alive today.

I've also read that some countries eat WAY more fiber than us westerners and Don't have the digestive issues we have!!!

here is the website:

http://www.fibermenace.com/

If you have a chance, check it out and I'd love to know your thoughts on this.

Thanks.
Sharon

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Re: Syl new
      #335517 - 09/02/08 11:50 AM
Fen

Reged: 03/01/08
Posts: 574
Loc: Central NY

I'm at work so I only perused the website briefly, but my question is this: all food has some fiber content in it, except for animal products. What does this guy recommend we eat? Meat and dairy only???

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Re: Syl new
      #335522 - 09/02/08 12:13 PM
Zara

Reged: 06/07/06
Posts: 883


I am also confused about this. I've been reading different reviews of this book, as well as some info on the website. It seems that he actually doesn't recommend eating dairy and wheat (casein and gluten are supposedly hard to digest), and he recommends eating meat/eggs only once a day. So, I'm wondering, what's left ?
A few reviews I read suggested that readers would have benefited had he included some dietary guidelines as for what to eat (he seems to focus more on what not to eat).
I'm curious about this book; however, I can't get it here in the CR and I can't justify spending the same amount on shipping as on the actual book.


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pregnant

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Misguided ... new
      #335527 - 09/02/08 12:59 PM
Syl

Reged: 03/13/05
Posts: 5499
Loc: SK, CANADA

Other than removing all fruit and vegetables there is no way to eliminate soluble or insoluble fiber from your diet. At first I thought he was only talking about IF but after reading some of the info on his web site I see he is talking about IF and SF.

One thing I found very amusing is that some supplements sold on the web site contain FOS (fructooligosaccharide or inulin) which is a soluble fiber. It is also known to cause problems to many IBSers. For IBSers with fructose problem FOS and inulin can be a nightmare. Another supplement contains acacia too. Strange

You can read much of the Fiber Menace through Google pages. In the summary on page 42 he says "Soluble fiber causes osmotic diarrhea because it retains water inside the large intestine". This is just wrong! So are many of the other observations.

One of reasons I like Heather's EFI diet is that generally it follows well accepted dietary guidelines. Of course, it has to be tweaked a bit by each person to handle their unique circumstances.

--------------------
STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS

The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
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Re: Syl new
      #335529 - 09/02/08 01:11 PM
Zara

Reged: 06/07/06
Posts: 883


I keep thinking about this...maybe by cutting out fiber-containing foods he's talking about taking the conventional approach. Here we all know that all grains contain fiber, even the refined ones (difference between dietary and functional fiber). However; most people believe that only whole grains contain fiber but things like refined flour and white rice don't. So maybe he recommends eating lots of white rice? I read somewhere (I think it was Mark Pimentel's book) that refined carbs are absorbed higher up in the GI tract and don't make it down to the colon. But then this would contradict with what Heather says about soluble fiber in these carbs, how they make that gel in our colon to help with IBS. Anyway, maybe Monastyrsky means the same thing as Pimentel, that by eating white carbs we absorb them before they hit the colon, therefore nothing's left there to ferment, etc.
So many different approaches - how do I know which one is the one for me ? I should have been born a guinea pig because that's how I feel sometimes !

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pregnant

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Re: Syl new
      #335530 - 09/02/08 01:31 PM
sharond

Reged: 10/29/07
Posts: 200


Here are his recommendations on what to eat:

adequate amounts of dietary fats.
high content mineral water (2-4 glasses per day) he says 8 8 oz. glasses is way too much.
natural meat and organ meat from small free-range grazing animals.
All fowl.
Eggs.
Fermented dairy from free-range animals.
fatty fish.
moderate consumption of salt.
moderate consumption of wine.

I could find nothing on fruits and veggies!!

HERE'S HIS COMMENTS ON GRAMS OF FIBER

Teenagers and adults: Similar amounts of fiber are recommended for teenagers and adults—from 26 to 38 g (0.9–1.3 oz) daily. If you consume that much fiber, it means large stools, inevitable anorectal damage, and eventual dependence on fiber to move the bowels.

The elderly: As people get older, less fiber is recommended (not more, as one may think) because the digestive organs are no longer as agile and healthy. Unfortunately, this is not what most constipated elderly patients hear from medical professionals. The majority urge seniors to increase fiber consumption in order to relieve constipation. Even so, 20 to 30 g (0.7–1.0 oz) of fiber for people over 50, half of whom already suffer from hemorrhoidal disease (and from diverticular disease by the age of 60) is a prescription for trouble.

Of course, he claims that if everyone follows his guidelines, no more IBS, hemrrhoids, etc.

I could not find any real "diet" to follow. Maybe it's in his book. Yes, it made a lot of sense reading it, but so do other sources pushing the fiber. Again, he is trying to sell his book and his products.


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Re: Syl new
      #335533 - 09/02/08 02:06 PM
sharond

Reged: 10/29/07
Posts: 200


Zara,

I didn't see anything about eating rice. Also, did you read his recommendation for water (2-4 glasses per day). He believes we get the rest of what we need through food. I agree with you....so many approaches. Sometimes I think too much research gets to be overwhelming.

Syl: Do you feel his approach is a bunch of bunk then??

Sharon


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Umm... new
      #335537 - 09/02/08 04:03 PM
Fen

Reged: 03/01/08
Posts: 574
Loc: Central NY

Quote:

If you consume that much fiber, it means large stools, inevitable anorectal damage, and eventual dependence on fiber to move the bowels.




I'm no expert, but isn't that the way the human body functions, to be dependent on fiber for elimination?!

I read somewhere that our intestines (obviously) are very long and twist and turn many times and so it takes anywhere from 1-3 days to eliminate. Dogs, on the other hand, have a straight shoot from mouth to anus, and it only takes about 12 hours. My nutritionist told me that our systems are the way they are to maximize nutrient absorption. It follows, though, that nothing can pass through such a long and twisty-turny route without something to push it through!

My vote is that this diet sounds like utter bunk.

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Re: Misguided ... new
      #335540 - 09/02/08 05:01 PM
sharond

Reged: 10/29/07
Posts: 200



Syl,
Thanks for checking this out and your advice...I was just so blown away by his theories.

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Re: Misguided ... new
      #335553 - 09/02/08 10:50 PM
Zara

Reged: 06/07/06
Posts: 883


Sharon, I didn't see the exact water intake recommendation but I did see that he recommends drinking less than 8 glasses a day.
I'm still confused about then diet. If he doesn't recommend even white rice, and, as I mentioned before, I do remember seeing the part about only having one serving of meat per day, what's left then?

Also, somewhere on his website he says that Japanese people eat almost zero fiber, yet have no digestive issues like we do in the west. Well, they do eat a lot of rice, plus, don't they eat a lot of vegetables? So this doesn't quite make sense.

I agree with Fen about the necessity of fiber. We really need something to push that junk out. It just makes sense.


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pregnant

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Re: Misguided ... new
      #335564 - 09/03/08 07:22 AM
sharond

Reged: 10/29/07
Posts: 200


Zara,

Went out on the web and did some research on the Japanese/Asian diet and I posted a few things below.....everything I could find said they eat high fiber and lots of veggies.

I do remember reading in one of the excerpts that his recommendation was 3-4 glasses of water per day.
I also remember reading somewhere on his website that if you are consuming more than 15 grams of fiber per day, get rid of those extra grams!!!!!

Besides the positive reviews on Amazon about the book I could find nothing else to support his theories.

Below are a few things I copied over:
It is believed that the primary cause of diverticular disease is a diet low in fiber. The disease is common in developed countries like the United States, England, and Australia because these cultures' diets are low in fiber. On the contrary the disease has a low occurrence in Asian and African countries because people eat high-fiber vegetable diets. Therefore, diverticulitis diets should contain high-fiber fruits and vegetables.

Compared to the way we eat in America, the Japanese diet is much lower in calories -- primarily due to the dominance of high-water, high-fiber and low-fat foods, Willcox said via e-mail from Japan.

The Japanese achieve this "low calorie-dense diet" by eating a tremendous amount of plant foods, he said, particularly vegetables, which pack the diet with disease-fighting antioxidants and other phytonutrients, such as flavonoids.

Instead of french fries -- the most popular vegetable in the United States -- the Japanese eat a wide range of veggies, especially those in the cabbage family, including broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, bok choy and kale. These cruciferous vegetables, named for their crosslike petals, contain substances that may protect against cancer.
Conversely, women raised in affluent cultures like the United States, full of high-fat fare like French fries and cheeseburgers, suffer the highest rates of breast cancer in the world - an 80% increase compared to cultures like Okinawa, Japan, where dietary fat intake is low, about 20% of total calories, and intake of fresh, fiber-filled foods like fruits and vegetables is high.
n truth, eating a variety of things with small amounts of fiber can add up to a large difference in your diet. There is a saying in Japan that you should eat 30 different foods in a day. While 30 may be stretching it, it's no surprize that the Japanese diet is really high in fiber.

Asian countries, such as Japan and China, have some of the healthiest people in the world. There is little incident of heart disease, diabetes, cancer and other weight-related illnesses that plague the U.S. and other Western countries. It was also announced recently that Japanese women have the longest lifespan in the world, much of which can be attributed to their diet.

FOOD & RECIPES

Asian diets are typically rich in fish, rice, soy, fruits and vegetables and tea. The Asian Diet offers generous amounts of fiber, antioxidants, vitamins and minerals, protein, iron and calcium. Dairy and meat are consumed sparingly.

Each day, as part of the Asian Diet, you should consume:

- Grains such as rice, noodles, corn and potatoes

- Fruits and vegetables, with cabbage, scallions, dark leafy greens, bananas, grapes and pineapple being amongst the more popular varieties.

I gotta really wonder how many people have used his theories and have been successful....sounds like a pretty unhealthy way of eating to me.

Sharon

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diet confusion.... new
      #335587 - 09/03/08 12:40 PM
Zara

Reged: 06/07/06
Posts: 883


Sharon, thanks a lot for such an informative post! I've never been to Asia but what I know about their diet sounds very much like what you wrote in your post.

I read a good part of the book today through googlebooks. He really seems to push the idea that humans are really carnivores (given our teeth structure) and that our guts weren't meant to digest all the roughage from fiber. That doesn't make sense though, humans are really omnivores, so although we can't eat grasses, we should be OK with fruits and veggies. I was trying to find any discussion boards where members could discuss the diet, but, just like you, all I found were the Amazon reviews.

Also, he says that we don't need fibrous produce for vitamins and minerals because as animals feed on greens, they absorb all those nutrients, and we get them through their meat. Maybe that used to be the truth but how about now? You can hardly buy regular meat in the store where the animals weren't kept in cages, grain-fed, etc. How exactly are we supposed to get vitamins from that?

I think that the author just really missed quite a few things...


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Re: diet confusion.... new
      #335590 - 09/03/08 01:03 PM
sharond

Reged: 10/29/07
Posts: 200


I agree with you Zara...Can you imagine taking this diet to your doctor (as he suggests)??? And, if his diet can cure so many things, why are there so many sick people out in the world..I mean really, if his diet did fix all the ailments he says it does, wouldn't the medical profession be using it and everyone on this IBS board would be aware of it????

Like you, I could find NOTHING except the Amazon reviews.

Sharon

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Re: diet confusion.... new
      #335595 - 09/03/08 01:20 PM
Zara

Reged: 06/07/06
Posts: 883


Quote:

I agree with you Zara...Can you imagine taking this diet to your doctor (as he suggests)???




Funny you mentioned that because I actually thought about it today. When I saw my GI in the US for the last time, basically his approach was like, "I don't really know what else to do with you, good luck, and let me know if you ever find out what really helps". So, I was just imagining, given that the no-fiber diet worked, trying to convince my gastroenterologist to follow the advice of a guy who doesn't even support the idea of colonoscopies !

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