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antibiotiocs
      #335165 - 08/23/08 02:09 PM
brogers

Reged: 08/23/08
Posts: 2


The reason antibiotics help some people is because most irritable bowell syndrome is caused by a highly contagus fungal infection, and when it see's an antiboitoc it has the ability to go dormant therefore the person feels better, however since taking antibiotics is what caused the infection, when you stop the condition returns and is worse.

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Re: antibiotiocs new
      #335166 - 08/23/08 02:28 PM
GaGa

Reged: 01/12/08
Posts: 534
Loc: Florida

That's been the opposite for me... Antibiotics cannot treat a fungal infection and every time I take antibiotics it makes the candida (fungal infection) worse both thrush, in my "gut" and "other places". I avoid antibiotics like the plague inasmuch as they are the reason I have been diagnosed with CFIDS, Fibromyalgia and Candida - years of antibiotic usage due to multiple infections. I wish they would help!

--------------------
"I Will Survive! :-)... I shall live and not die and declare the works of The Lord..."

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Re: antibiotiocs new
      #335177 - 08/23/08 11:20 PM
shawneric

Reged: 01/30/03
Posts: 1738
Loc: Oregon

brogers, I am not sure where you got the information you posted, but with all due respect it is totally inaccurate.

IBS is NOT and Infection and is NOT highly contagious and IBS is itself a distint clinical entity. Candida is in the gut in the first place to HELP fight infections. There is no evidence of it even being a problem with the immune system that is observed by immunologists. There are real candida infections which are rarer and can kill a person however. IBS is not an infection or caused by candida or yeast. In the above posts are accurate candida research and information. They are now sequencing its dna.


GaGa, IBS and CFIS and Fibro share common issues for sure but it is not candida and so you know the "candida overgrowth" that is being talked about here has never been found in anyone 20 years or so since it was first speculated on by someone who was not even a reasercher, by any gastroenterologist, neurogastroenterologist, immunologist,except basically on the internet and some unorthodox practioners.

It use to be in the past people would use the term IBS as a "catch all" diagnoses for any kind of digestive upset, but that is no longer the case.

It might help to watch these videos and one expert on Fibro and IBS is DR Lin Chang, so you know. Some people might not get the right kinds of treatments for there problems.

Antibiotics are killing all the good bacteria and that can open you up to some problems in protecting yourself. Antibiotics can be over prescribed and one common problem is C-diff infection. The gut flora usally returns to normal a couple weeks after taking most of them naturally however when a person really needs to take them.

These are very up to date and excellent information on IBS.

http://www.aboutibs.org/site/learning-center/video-corner/




--------------------
My website on IBS is www.ibshealth.com


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Re: antibiotiocs new
      #335178 - 08/24/08 04:34 AM
Allisonmary

Reged: 01/03/04
Posts: 533


thats not true about IBS and even if it was, antibiotics make fungal infections worse.

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Re: shawneric new
      #335179 - 08/24/08 05:36 AM
GaGa

Reged: 01/12/08
Posts: 534
Loc: Florida

Shawneric,

Thank you for the information... I guess I'm just going to have to keep on researching and researching until I find an answer. Have you heard of the new IBS blood test being promoted by Prometheus Labs in CA? After being told I had IBS for years, this one blood test now says I do not. Also,
multiple drs. have told me I have candidiasis - thrush, leaky gut, etc.... Then there are the alternative "people" like Doug Kaufman, Dr. Janet Maccaro, Dr. Don Colbert and even Jordan Rubin who all support the candida theory - as do most HFS trained personnel/clinicans/naturopaths. So, what am I to believe? This weekend, out of pure depression, I ate a chocolate bar and did drink one Sprite -within 24 hours I have thrush and other related intestinal symptoms. GI doctor says IBS - general practitioner (who did the IBS blood test) - says candida.
"What's a mother to do?"
I'll check out the website listed and thank you again...Dorothy

--------------------
"I Will Survive! :-)... I shall live and not die and declare the works of The Lord..."

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No reliable blood test for IBS new
      #335183 - 08/24/08 06:28 AM
Syl

Reged: 03/13/05
Posts: 5499
Loc: SK, CANADA

There isn't a proven blood test for IBS. And Prometheus labs has not published any research papers in reputable IBS research journals on the use of their technique for detecting IBS. Also note that Prometheus labs claims their test only has a 50% sensitivity - not very good for a diagnostic test. Also the company says their test is only an aid for clinicians. It is not a definitive test. If you think your IBS was misdiagnosed by your GI doctor then ask for a second opinion from another GI doctor.

--------------------
STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS

The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS

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Re: antibiotiocs new
      #335191 - 08/24/08 09:25 AM
kim123

Reged: 07/18/06
Posts: 543
Loc: Florida

I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying there is no such thing as candida overgrowth, and/or that it does not cause bowel problems?

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Re: antibiotiocs new
      #335193 - 08/24/08 10:10 AM
shawneric

Reged: 01/30/03
Posts: 1738
Loc: Oregon

"Are you saying there is no such thing as candida overgrowth, and/or that it does not cause bowel problems?"

There are many thing to learn and understand here in regards to candida itself in order to fully understand the issues here.

CDC

Candidiasis

http://www.cdc.gov/nczved/dfbmd/disease_listing/candidiasis_gi.html

Additional reading CDC

Welcome to Doctor Fungus, your on-line reference to all things mycological!!
The Official Website of the Mycoses Study Group

http://www.doctorfungus.org/mycoses/human/candida/Chronic_Candidiasis.htm

The Australasian Society of Clinical Immunology and Allergy has issued this paper on Allergy testing and treatments. 2007

Unorthodox Techniques for the Diagnosis and Treatment of Allergy, Asthma and Immune Disorders

"INAPPROPRIATE TESTING

Chronic Candidiasis

http://www.allergy.org.au/pospapers/unorthodox.htm

Ask the Experts : UC Berkeley wellness letter

Q: What is yeast syndrome? A friend says she has it and must avoid sugar and foods made with yeast. H.S., VIA THE INTERNET

A: There's no evidence that this "syndrome" exists.

http://wellnessletter.com/test/html/wl/2001/wlAskExperts0101.html

Bacteria: More Than Pathogens
Trudy M. Wassenaar

http://www.actionbioscience.org/biodiversity/wassenaar.html

There is candida, there is just not candida overgrowth syndrome in the gut as has been speculated some twenty years ago and still has not been found by anyone.

Most people have IBS which is NOT an infection by candida. Serious candida infections however can kill a person.

Mayo clinic ask the expert Food and nutrition specialist.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/candida-cleanse/AN01679

Gaga, I will post again on somethings in regards to your situation that may hopefully help the confusion.






--------------------
My website on IBS is www.ibshealth.com


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Re: antibiotiocs new
      #335195 - 08/24/08 10:39 AM
Syl

Reged: 03/13/05
Posts: 5499
Loc: SK, CANADA

Great material Shawneric. The Berkeley newsletter link is broken. Here is the corrected link to the newsletter.

--------------------
STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS

The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS

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Re: Shawneric new
      #335197 - 08/24/08 11:21 AM
GaGa

Reged: 01/12/08
Posts: 534
Loc: Florida

We're realy keeping you busy, aren't we??? You should charge a fee!

I do agree with you that most medical professionals do not agree with the candida diagnosis - in fact, when I had an endoscopy, the GI was sure he would find it in my intestinal tract inasmuch as I had severe thrush - but, no it wasn't there. I think it is the alternative medicine side that is influencing the information/diagnosis of such.
Thanks much! - Dorothy

--------------------
"I Will Survive! :-)... I shall live and not die and declare the works of The Lord..."

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Re:Syl new
      #335198 - 08/24/08 11:28 AM
GaGa

Reged: 01/12/08
Posts: 534
Loc: Florida

I did not research the lab adequately. When my general practitioner suggested the test, I did actually go on line and see that this lab actually existed. My doctor tends to jump on anything new,(which in a way is good because I know so many drs. who won't run any tests for anything) so I should have known. Especially since no lab here does the testing and I had to go to one specific hospital for them to draw the blood and then FedEx it to Prometheus. I'm first, irritated at myself for not exploring/researching more - however, I get so irritated at doctors who believe everything a drug/lab rep tells them. That's the reason we have people dying from physician-prescribed drugs. I never take anything unless I have thoroughly researched it myself - even then, I don't usually take it unless it's absolutely necessary. Thanks so much, Syl! ~ Dorothy (a/k/a 'The Skeptic')

--------------------
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candida albicans is a pathogenic fungus new
      #335202 - 08/24/08 11:39 AM
kim123

Reged: 07/18/06
Posts: 543
Loc: Florida

Candida albicans is an opportunistic pathogenic fungus capable of causing serious infection in humans, especially if they are immunocompromised. There are 300 known species of fungi that are pathogenic to man; Candida, aspergillus and zygomycetes are most frequently isolated.

Overuse or inappropriate use of antibiotics can contribute to the development of fungal infections.

For me, my problem was fungus. I only found that out by experimenting with an antifungal diet, even after many tests and advice from my doctors indicated I would be wasting my time. To say I was amazed is an understatement. As I found out, fungus is real, and it can do much damage.

Do what works best for you. Everyone is different. No one can tell you more about your body, than you.

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Re: Kim 123 new
      #335204 - 08/24/08 12:29 PM
GaGa

Reged: 01/12/08
Posts: 534
Loc: Florida

Kim -
Did you take any antifungal drugs like Diflucan or Nystatin or did you take probiotics/acidophilus??? Or, did you just primarily change your diet? I know it is a long process and I'm not taking anything like Candex - can't risk having Herxhimer?? reaction now that I'm back in school... I think this is still a realitvely unexplored area by the mainstream medical profession - just as they have only, within the last few years, recognized IBS as a disease. For years I was told "it's all in your head... you have to learn to control your emotions...". One ENT I saw could not speak English very well and when I mentioned my bloodwork showed candida antibodies (I understand that the same thing as it showing measles antibodies - just that I've had it at one time) he screamed at me "You no have candida! You have it in your blood, you die!!!!" I asked him to quit because he was scaring me. But, he just did not understand the correlation. My general practitioner has worked with many AIDS/HIV patients who are diagnosed with chronic candida or systemic candida and, unfortunately, it can kill them. My mind is getting fuzzy from all this thinking!
Have you started back to school yet? If not, good luck! If so, hang in there! - Dorothy

--------------------
"I Will Survive! :-)... I shall live and not die and declare the works of The Lord..."

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Re: Kim 123 new
      #335209 - 08/24/08 12:57 PM
kim123

Reged: 07/18/06
Posts: 543
Loc: Florida

Dorothy-
Yup, got one week under my belt already. I did take natural anti-fungals at the time, olive leaf extract and rotated it with caprylic acid, every month. I did have the Herheimer response, another indicator I had toxins/fungal die-off in me. I can understand you not wanting to get that as you're heading back to school. Yikes!

You are right, there is so much controversy with the whole yeast/candida thing out there. If a candida diet has worked for many people, there must be something to it, for some of us out here, anyway. Listen to your own body. Doctors don't always have all the answers. If what you have always done has not worked for you, then change something. For me, it was changing my diet. If you found something that works for you, keep on keepin' on! Best to you, too.

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Re:Syl new
      #335212 - 08/24/08 02:01 PM
Syl

Reged: 03/13/05
Posts: 5499
Loc: SK, CANADA

It is so easy to make a web site look professional. It is difficult to know how much credence to give to posted claims. You have to carefully read between the lines.

There was a note in the detailed description of the IBS diagnostic test that caught my eye. It says "Currently, Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approval is not required for IBS Diagnostic testing performed by Prometheus." In other words, currently there are no standards for IBS blood tests, hence there is little evidence that a collection of blood tested biomarkers can be a reliable indicator of IBS. Also, according to a footnote the "data on file" are what they use to make claims. The analytical and statistical methods and in particular, the proprietary pattern matching algorithm, is not referenced with a single peer reviewed research paper.

I would rely on a GI doc's ability to diagnosis IBS. Maybe s/he can figure out what the data from this lab means. As for giving advice on how to manage IBS there is lots of room for improvement in every profession dealing with IBS

--------------------
STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS

The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS

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Re: antibiotiocs new
      #335215 - 08/24/08 03:38 PM
kim123

Reged: 07/18/06
Posts: 543
Loc: Florida

Quote:



Mayo clinic ask the expert Food and nutrition specialist.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/candida-cleanse/AN01679











Interesting, that on the same Mayo Clinic website we find conflicting advice. On one hand, the nutrition "expert" says that the treatment technique (eliminating sugar, white flour and yeast) is not supported with research. On the same website, oral thrush (I mention this for Dorothy)is described as a fungal condition of Candida albicans. Prevention is limiting sugar and yeast-containing foods, including bread. One can find articles that indicate that sugar and carbs can enhance the growth of Candida.

I think you have to be careful not to believe everything you read on the internet as "gospel", and being always right and true.

Syl's fixed link (thank you Syl) references the NEJM as finding that in "one" study there was "one" anti-fungal drug that had no effect on women with the "supposed" yeast syndrome. So, what does that prove? Well, what was the drug, how many women were in the study, what other factors could have been responsible for the outcome... See what I mean? In the same journal by the way, the NEJM 2006 states there is "...increasing evidence for yeasts being able to cause IBS symptoms in sensitized patients via Candida products, antigens and cross antigens."

The same link references that there is no science to back up the claims that yeast overgrowth leads to scores of health problems and diseases. Be careful what you read and believe. There are myriads of studies on the PubMed website that prove otherwise.

I guess I just mean to say that be sure you do your own research when it comes to your health. Don't just accept what anyone, (including myself!), tells you.

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Re: antibiotiocs new
      #335217 - 08/24/08 04:36 PM
Syl

Reged: 03/13/05
Posts: 5499
Loc: SK, CANADA

This Mayo Clinic article is talking about intestinal candidiasis and diet. This Mayo Clinic article is talking about Candida albican in oral thrust. These are two different conditions. The first condition is not official recognized and diet has no effect. In the second instance the condition is well recognized and diet makes a difference.

I believe the article you quoted "...increasing evidence for yeasts being able to cause IBS symptoms in sensitized patients via Candida products" comes from a 2005 article in the European Journal of Gastroenterology & Hepatology. The complete quote is "Even if the involvement of yeasts in the aetiology of IBS still remains unclear, there is increasing evidence for yeasts being able to cause IBS-symptoms in sensitized patients via Candida products, antigens and cross-antigens. But more research is needed before antifungal treatment can be recommended as a first line treatment for IBS." Furthermore the article acknowledges that "There are no satisfactory studies addressing intestinal colonization of Candida in IBS patients that support, or refute a causative effect." The rest of article reviews previous research findings based on the unproven assumption that a causal relationship might exist.

Careful attention has to paid to the wording of research articles in order to tease out the limitations of a study and the claims its authors are making


Reference
Santelmann, H. and J. M. Howard: Yeast metabolic products, yeast antigens and yeasts as possible triggers for irritable bowel syndrome. [Review]. European Journal of Gastroenterology & Hepatology January 2005;17(1):21-26.


--------------------
STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS

The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS

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Re: antibiotiocs, et., al new
      #335224 - 08/24/08 08:12 PM
GaGa

Reged: 01/12/08
Posts: 534
Loc: Florida

I think there comes a time when we have to agree to disagree! On one hand we agree with alternative/blended medicine when it comes to IBS and its treatment - i.e probiotics, fennel tea, peppermint capsules and digestive enzymes (I do not think there are many medical practitioners out there prescribing these things - yet, practically everyone talks about taking some or all). Are there documented, scientific studies by CDC, JAMA or other medical groups to support their efficacy?
Then, the Candida issue, I recently read a document published by the well known Cleveland Clinic that purports the evidence of esophogitis and even gastritis as being caused by candida albicans - just because the CDC, or other studies do not recognize it, I think we need to keep an open mind. I, personally, believe in "blended medicine" and am middle of the road as far as treatments. I'm not going to have hydrocolonic therapy or I.V. chelation therapy, but I'm not going to take every new FDA-approved drug that comes out. Remember, it was not that many years ago that IBS was considered a psychosomatic illness.
I have a friend in his 40s who was diagnosed with ALS (Lou Gehrig's Disease) and later Lyme's Disease - talk about a double whammy! Modern science offered him no hope. Alternative medicine gave him hope, but the "cure" (we hope) is almost worse than the disease. Fortunately he lives in Atlanta and has access to a clinic that practices blended medicine: general practitioners on staff, as well as naturopaths, accupuncturists, nutritionsts... I'm sure he would love to hear "take these meds x times a day". Instead, his treatment protocol is rigid and intense... no wheat, no dairy, no sugar, no red meat, everything from household cleaning products to every bite of food organic, reverse osmosis water treatment, $2,000+ a month, vitamin/herbal supplements, (including those to kill parasites) hyperbaric chamber treatments, BUT - he has been diligent and the disease has not progressed as the neurologists, etc. expected.
Conclusion: I love reading everyone's opinions. I have an open mind and you help me grow when you share your research, your exeriences. At my "advanced" age (58), I can truly appreciate how far the medical field - and nutritional field have come. What a wonderful time to be alive! ~ Dorothy

--------------------
"I Will Survive! :-)... I shall live and not die and declare the works of The Lord..."

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Re: antibiotiocs, et., al new
      #335228 - 08/25/08 02:30 AM
Syl

Reged: 03/13/05
Posts: 5499
Loc: SK, CANADA

Dorothy - FYI - there are scientific studies that support the use of probiotics (e.g. see this message ), peppermint (see references below), fennel and digestive enzymes (e.g. lactase) for IBS.

It is indeed a great time to be alive. At my advanced age (64) I hope to see a major break through in the treatment of IBS before I leave the planet

References
Grigoleit, H.-G. and P. Grigoleit, 2005: Peppermint oil in irritable bowel syndrome. Phytomedicine, 12, 601-606.

Kligler, B. and S. Chaudhary, 2007: Peppermint oil. American Family Physician, 75, 1027-1030.



--------------------
STABLE: ♂, IBS-D 50+ years - Science of IBS

The FODMAP Approach to Managing IBS Symptoms
Evidence-based Dietary Management of Functional GI Symptoms: The FODMAP Approach
FODMAP Chart & Cheatsheet
The Role of Food & Dietary Intervention in IBS

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Re: Syl new
      #335229 - 08/25/08 02:43 AM
GaGa

Reged: 01/12/08
Posts: 534
Loc: Florida

Well, it's wonderful to meet someone close to my age!
Thanks for the references. You are an outstanding, informed, intelligent lady and we're lucky to have you around here! Honestly, I'm glad God did not give me a scientific mind - I'm one of those "gray" people, instead of black and white...I'm wishy/washy (good Southern expression). So, like you, I pray for a cure, but more importantly, I pray for a miracle. Thank you again - Dorothy

--------------------
"I Will Survive! :-)... I shall live and not die and declare the works of The Lord..."

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Re: Syl new
      #335247 - 08/25/08 09:01 AM
shawneric

Reged: 01/30/03
Posts: 1738
Loc: Oregon

For quite some time now they have been studying the gut flora of IBsers. Candida has already been ruled out.

They are studying the gut lining with very powerful electron microscopes at the cellular level.

""Gut Bacteria and Irritable Bowel Syndrome
By: Eamonn, M. M. Quigley M.D., Alimentary Pharmabiotic Centre, University College Cork, Cork, Ireland

Bacteria are present in the normal gut (intestines) and in large numbers the lower parts of the intestine. These "normal" bacteria have important functions in life. A variety of factors may disturb the mutually beneficial relationship between the flora and its host, and disease may result. The possibility that gut bacteria could have a role in irritable bowel syndrome (IBS) may surprise some; there is indeed, now quite substantial evidence to support the idea that disturbances in the bacteria that populate the intestine may have a role in at least some patients with IBS. This article presents a discussion of the possible role of bacteria in IBS and various treatment approaches."

Do bacteria play a role in IBS?

The possibility that gut bacteria could have a role Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS) may surprize some; there is indeed, now quite substantial evidence to support the idea that distrubances in the bacteria that populate the intestines may have a role in at least some patients with IBS. What is this evidence? It can be summarized as follows:

1. surveys which found that antibiotic use, well known to distrub flora, may predispose individuals to IBS.

2. The observation that some individuals may develop IBS suddenly, and for the first time, following an episode of stomach or intestinal infection (gatroenteritis) caused by a bacterial infection. (This is called Post Infectious IBS but here the intial infection resolves and there are structural cell changes)

3. recent evidence that a very low level of inflammation may be present in the bowel wall of some IBS patients, a degree of inflammation that could well have resulted from abnormal interactions with bacteria in the gut. (this is not overt inflammation but also specific cells and inflammatory mediators) Stress can also influence this process and has been shown to be connected as well.)

4. The Suggestion that IBS maybe Associated with the abnormal presents, , in the small intestines, of types and numbers; a condition termed small bacterial overgrowth (SIBO)> (This is a seperate condition and is not panning out as a cause)

5. Accumaliting evidence to indicate that altering the bacteria in the gut, by antibiotics or probiotics, may improve symptoms in IBS.

For some time, various studies have suggested the presence of changes in the kind of colonic flora in IBS patients. The most consistent finding is a relative decrease in the population of one species of 'good' bacteria, bifidobacteria.

However, the methods employed in these studies have been subject to question and other studies have not always reproduced these finding. Nevertheless, these changes in the flora, maybe primary or secondary, could lead to the increase of bacterial species that produce more gas and other products of their metabolism. These could CONTRIBUTE to symptoms such as gas, bloating and diarrhea."

"We still don't know the exact role bacteria has in IBS. More research is needed."

This was from 92
"Postgrad Med J. 1992 Jun;68(800):453-4. Related Articles, Links


Comment in:
Postgrad Med J. 1993 Jan;69(807):80.

The role of faecal Candida albicans in the pathogenesis of food-intolerant irritable bowel syndrome.

Middleton SJ, Coley A, Hunter JO.

Department of Gastroenterology, Addenbrooke's Hospital, Cambridge, UK.

Candida albicans was sought in stool samples from 38 patients with irritable bowel syndrome and 20 healthy controls. In only three patients with irritable bowel syndrome was C. albicans discovered and these patients had either recently received antibiotics or the stool sample had been delayed more than 24 hours in transit. C. albicans was isolated from none of the control stool samples. We conclude that C. albicans is not involved in the aetiology of the irritable bowel syndrome.

PMID: 1437926 "

This position is shared by both the american and Australasian Society of Clinical Immunology.

"The Australasian Society of Clinical Immunology and Allergy has issued this paper on Allergy testing and treatments."

ASCIA Position Statement:
Unorthodox Techniques for the Diagnosis and Treatment of Allergy, Asthma and Immune Disorders
Dr Raymond J. Mullins on behalf of the Education Committee, ASCIA October 2004

"INAPPROPRIATE TESTING

Chronic Candidiasis
Use: Treatment of a variety of ailments including allergy, irritable bowel, food allergy and intolerance, autoimmunity, arthritis and psychological conditions.
Method: This approach is based on the concept that imbalance of gut flora results in overgrowth of Candida albicans within the gut. Release of fungal toxins results in a variety of symptoms including fatigue, arthritis, irritable bowel, food intolerance as well as psychological symptoms. These toxins weaken the immune system, predisposing to further symptoms from ingested foods and toxins. Treatment centres on dietary supplements, administration of antifungal drugs such as nystatin, and restriction of "Candida friendly" foods such as those containing sugars, yeast or molds.
Evidence: Candida is a normal gut organism, and immune responses (antibodies, cell mediated responses) to this organism are both expected and observed in healthy controls as well as those allegedly suffering from this condition. There is no evidence of overgrowth of Candida or altered immune responses to this organism in patients complaining of this syndrome. There is neither a scientific rationale nor published evidence that elimination of Candida with diets or anti-fungal therapy is useful for management."

http://www.allergy.org.au/pospapers/unorthodox.htm

It has been twenty years since Dr Crook first speculated on "Candida over growth syndrome" and here were are twenty years later with less proof then when they started. The postion paper above is from 2007 and the americans have the same postions as well as the mycology (fungus) experts I posted above and gastroenterologists and neurogastroenterologists.

This goes over real candida conditions.

http://www.cdc.gov/nczved/dfbmd/disease_listing/candidiasis_gi.html

These are Mycology experts.

Chronic Candidiasis



Overview

It has been proposed that the asymptomatic colonization with Candida might be associated with a variety of symptoms and cause a "Candida Hypersensitivity Syndrome" [599] This concept was popularized by William Crook, MD in his book The Yeast Connection [491]. Previously, C.O. Truss, a physician from Birmingham, Alabama had proposed the existence of such a malady [2257, 2259]. Other names that have been given to this presumed condition include:
Candida-Related Complex
Polysystemic Candidiasis
Chronic Candidiasis (This term should not be confused with Chronic Mucocutaneous Candidiasis)
The syndrome is theoretically due to an overgrowth of Candida albicans in the gastrointestinal tract or in association with mucous membranes. The syndrome is said to occur in connection with some or all of the following risk factors:
Use of broad spectrum antibiotics
Use of oral contraceptives
Ingestion of diets rich in yeast-containing foods or readily utilizable carbohydrates.
Pregnancy
Tremendous attention by public media and health magazines has created a large body of uncritical publications on this topic [399, 486, 490, 2046, 2256, 2257, 2258, 2259, 2459]. There are no rigorous data to support these concepts. The whole idea is based on historical controls and no working definition has been ever assessed [220]. Although brief communications by the proponents have appeared in major journals [483, 484, 485, 487, 488, 489, 492], the actual studies performed by these physicians do not appear to have been subjected to peer review. The American Academy of Allergy and Immunology published a position paper in 1986 stating that the concept was "speculative and unproven" [84]. Later, a carefully designed study on the topic by Dismukes et al. demonstrated that the condition does not appear to be reproducible or verifiable [599].


Clinical Manifestations

There is a broad range of symptoms that have been associated with this syndrome. They can be classified in the following groups, although it is not clear how many or which of them are required to make a diagnosis nor is there scientific data linking these multiple clinical manifestations with Candida albicans overgrowth [220, 262]:
Vaginal. Recurrent episodes of Candida vaginitis associated with the classic symptoms of pruritus, burning and abnormal discharge.
Gastrointestinal. Heartburn, bloating, diarrhea or constipation.
Respiratory allergy. Rhinitis, sneezing and/or wheezing.
Central nervous system. Anxiety, depression, memory deficits and/or loss of ability to concentrate.
Menstrual abnormalities. Severe premenstrual tension and/or menstrual irregularities.
Other Systemic Symptoms. Fatigue, headache and/or irritability.
Specific Diagnostic Strategies

The proponents of the existence of this syndrome base their diagnosis on the clinical picture previously discussed [490, 491, 2459]. There is no laboratory test that allows a clear identification of patients affected with this presumed disorder. Actually, "no clear definition of the disease has ever been advanced" [220]. Considering these facts, it is impossible to set criteria to establish and identify patients affected with this supposed disease.

From a practical viewpoint, we recommend that all women with recurrent vaginitis be carefully evaluated for possible causative factors. Patients with more general complaints should receive a general physical examination. A CBC, general serum chemistries (including liver enzymes), and thyroid studies should be checked to eliminate the possibility of an anemia, subclinical hepatitis, and so forth. Finally, Renfro et al. reported that approximately two-thirds of patients with chronic fatigue had an underlying psychiatric diagnosis [1893].


Treatment

Proponents of this syndrome have recommended such therapies as:
Long-term therapy with antifungal agents at increasing doses until resolution of symptoms. Oral and usually vaginal nystatin are recommended. Other azoles, such as ketoconazole have been also used [262].
Diet modification including restriction of sugar and other simple carbohydrates [487].
Candida allergy shots [220].
Avoidance of mouldy environments [220].
The value of these therapies is unknown. Dismukes et al. conducted a prospective double-blind study to assess the impact of antifungal therapy on this condition [599]. This study compared oral and vaginal nystatin with placebo in 42 premenopausal women with the presumed diagnosis of chronic candidiasis. The remarkable finding of this study was that nystatin did not "reduce systemic or psychological symptoms more than placebo did "[599]. One of the major proponents of the syndrome, Doctor William Crook criticized the study by saying that nystatin is no more than one of the components of the "comprehensive and multimodal therapy" required for this condition [487]. The same author agreed on the urgent need for more scientific studies on the topic. However, a recently done and detailed Medline search on the topic yielded only the data that we have discussed.


Chronic Candidiasis FAQ

We often receive inquiries about the diagnosis and treatment of chronic candidiasis. Here is our FAQ list:
How can I decide if I have chronic candidiasis? Answer: We don't know. The syndrome has never been clearly defined and a workable diagnostic approach has never been put forth. While we have no doubt that there are individuals who suffer from some (or all) of the symptoms listed above, we are not aware of any testing procedure that can link these symptoms to a candidal infection.


My doctor cultured Candida from my stool. What does this mean? Answer: Candida spp. are frequent asymptomatic colonizers of the skin and bowel. Such cultures are of little significance unless you are critically ill in an ICU or are receiving cancer chemotherapy.


I took _______ (name of drug) or I altered my diet to include (or exclude) _______ (name of food) and now I feel better. Doesn't that mean I have (had) chronic candidiasis? Answer: The most common form of this question is "I took fluconazole and now I feel better--does this mean I had chronic candidiasis?" While we're glad you feel better, response to fluconazole is not a diagnostic tool. The various antifungal drugs have effects that go beyond the fungi (for example, fluconazole interacts with the enzyme systems of people, not just of fungi) and many diseases have a natural course of progression and regression. Similar concepts apply to changes in diet. If something makes you feel better, we're delighted for you. We just don't know what it means.


I still really think I might have chronic candidiasis. What should I do? Answer: At the risk of being repetitive, we'll say it again: We don't know of any useful approaches to diagnosing or treating chronic candidiasis. You should see a competent physician and be checked for the things that we do know how to diagnose (see discussion above). If these tests are negative, then we have nothing too specific to offer other than sympathy. We are not denying your symptoms. Rather, we honestly don't know what to do about them. If you can identify something that makes you feel better, then we'll cheer for you!


Is "yeast" the same as Candida? Answer: The term "yeast" is relatively imprecise. Medical mycologists use this term to describe fungi that reproduce predominantly by budding or fission. There are many genera of fungi that fit in this category. Beer and bread makers use the term to refer to Saccharomyces cerevisiae. Doctors sometimes use the term "yeast infection" to refer to Candida spp. and its diseases. For example, yeast vaginitis is the colloquial phrase for candidal vaginitis.

http://www.doctorfungus.org/mycoses/human/candida/Chronic_Candidiasis.htm




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Kim... new
      #341725 - 02/06/09 03:19 AM
Zara

Reged: 06/07/06
Posts: 883


Quote:

There are 300 known species of fungi that are pathogenic to man; Candida, aspergillus and zygomycetes are most frequently isolated.






Kim, does this mean that one could have a yeast infection that would not show up on the candida test, because it's a different strain?

For me, my problem was fungus. I only found that out by experimenting with an antifungal diet, even after many tests and advice from my doctors indicated I would be wasting my time. To say I was amazed is an understatement. As I found out, fungus is real, and it can do much damage.

Do what works best for you. Everyone is different. No one can tell you more about your body, than you.




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Re: Kim... new
      #341733 - 02/06/09 06:19 AM
kim123

Reged: 07/18/06
Posts: 543
Loc: Florida

I am not an authority, so I can't answer that for certain. But, I am led to believe that a test from your doctor would have to be a specific test, looking for specific fungi. From what I understand, our medical laboratories are not adept at routinely isolating fungi from human tissue or fluid samples. The test he would typically prescribe generally would not pick up every/any fungi that may be causing you problems. As well, testing for those could be expensive. Thereby, experimenting with the antifungal diet would be a quick and inexpensive way to find out.

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Re: Kim... new
      #341734 - 02/06/09 06:22 AM
Zara

Reged: 06/07/06
Posts: 883


That makes sense! I trust your opinion, I know you've done a lot of research in this area (I haven't had a chance to read The Fungus Link yet). I think I'm going to give the anti-fungal diet a shot.
Thanks!

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